Just a update, from a CNN news article: Blogger: Show cleavage to test cleric’s quake theory
..She said no woman should feel pressured to participate.
“It’s not supposed to be serious activism that is going to revolutionize women’s rights, but just a bit of fun juvenile humor,” she wrote. “I’m a firm believer that when someone says something so stupid and hateful, serious discourse isn’t going to accomplish anything – sometimes light-hearted mockery is worthwhile.”
Back on Boobquake’s Facebook page, McCreight took a moment to be serious and encouraged followers to consider donating money to the American Red Cross’ disaster relief efforts or to the AHA Foundation, an organization that strives to “defend the rights of women in the West against militant Islam.”
I will not be taking part in #boobquake. In case you were wondering.
But I will be buying a copy of Amanda Marcotte’s new book on activism and protesting, because I’d like to learn more about the things she writes about.
I’ve had a few discussions with friends who will either take part, not take part and/or don’t support it – there’s quite a few who don’t particularly care… reactions have been mixed.
One response to me looked at comparing the male to female response to the issue – do we ever see the likes of PZ Myers, Dawkins, Hitchens, Eugenie Scott, et al, ever make gestures that primarily capitalise or directly draw on their ‘sex appeal’? Yes, there are indeed people who find them ‘sexy’. However, they do not aim to make that their primary, or even secondary or tertiary appeal, when they publicise and / or promote themselves and their work. Perhaps they don’t find they need to.
Another friend had sent me some links that I hadn’t seen before, so I’ll include them here: What Is Internalised Sexism? was the first post I was sent, and I strongly suggest checking out the rest of that site, called “Finally – A Feminism 101 Blog“. Then “Sexism is a Matter of Opinion” and from another site: “What’s the Big Deal? It’s Just A Joke”
I guess the only thing to add from my own perspective, as someone who has worked in an Islamic school and teaches Religious Education, is the following experience:
Since the time I first learned of it in early 2000 and most likely before – it is still ongoing – clerics from Asian regions are paid for by fundamentalist groups in their various countries, such as Indonesia, Malaysia and even sponsored by Middle Eastern regions, to visit Australia and lecture.
The messages by these kinds of clerics are extremist, often supportive of acts involving terrorism and I have read accounts and heard discussions in regards to how the mosques are mortified that it is those messages that are immediately picked up by the media and presented as if they are representative of their entire Islamic community, particularly those in Australia.
April 15th, 2010, The Age Newspaper:
…Yesterday, no one involved with the Lakemba mosque would take responsibility for procuring Mr Awlaki as a speaker. According to a director of Lakemba mosque, Ziad Ghamraoui, Sheikh Shady al-Suleiman was in charge of organising evening youth events at the time of the sermon. Sheikh Suleiman refused to comment. He would not say whether Mr Awlaki was paid and would not comment on the subject of his speech. Following Mr Awlaki’s lecture, the mosque must now approve all speakers. ”It’s this kind of thing,” Mr Ghamraoui said of why the approval process changed. ”We need to make sure that it’s only moderate scholars that are coming.”
The senior imam at the mosque, Sheikh Hilaly, condemned provocative clerics who radicalised young people. ”They are like fast food who give no substance and no spiritual nutrition,” he said.
While news reports occasionally give alternative views to the stereotype on what it means to be Muslim, particularly as a woman, they are few and far between and reflect the ongoing tension. They also, like the lecture by Taslima Nasrin, show how responses to dissidents who are within the reach of fundamentalists, may be ‘use this situation to set an example’ to the rest of the world – via one of violence and death-threats.
It is those women and those communities that I primarily think about, if I choose to condemn the majority as bad – the same way they do to us in return. Nothing changes if anyone takes a blanket approach and say ‘They Are All X’.
Gestures that are driven by outsiders, like atheists / skeptics /humanists, whoever, to issues within the Muslim community could be ignored – as I suspect this one will and as Ryan on his blog points out – ‘Concerned about Boobquake’ – possibly even by sympathetic members, if they do not indicate an understanding of the situations that may lead to a cleric extremist making press-headlines by making those kind of statements.
This is not unusual for any culture, I should point out. Indigenous Australian groups may respond the same way and it is why we have cultural residences and educational institutions that work towards reconciliation and community networking and outreach, to encourage a ‘balanced’ depiction of them in the media and beyond.
Again – American Red Cross’ disaster relief efforts or the AHA Foundation.


{ 20 comments… read them below or add one }
“I have read accounts and heard discussions in regards to how the mosques are mortified that it is those messages that are immediately picked up by the media and presented as if they are representative of their entire Islamic community”
That seems a bit strange. Why allow extremists to speak at your mosque if you don’t want to be associated with them? Unless I’ve misread this.
1) Sometimes they aren’t told that is what’s going to happen – pressure can be placed upon them to have someone to present, without the community being fully aware what the subject matter will be;
2) I was also given the impression that the very notion of saying no is ‘un-Islamic’ in the case of someone being funded to come present, and so they say yes. :/
This is not unusually elsewhere in different circumstances – remember Happy Singer, PurpleFae and myself networking to alert a school’s Science department that they were having their hall used by a Creationist group for an ‘information session’ and it was only after that we got a response from the Principal of the school?
I have also noticed that my local observatory had an employee voice their regret on a Facebook fan page that their planned ‘Psychic Fayre’ day was removed due to protests by concerned scientists… ‘what a shame, we were looking forward to it!’ :/ *rolls eyes*
Hehe. Number Two definitely fits with what I’ve observed while travelling in rural Turkey.
Yes, I can see how mistakes of this sort can be made in good faith on a one-off basis, but when mosques repeatedly play host to extremist speakers that will inevitably reflect on the congregation.
Although the whole boobquake concept may seem trivial and sexist I think it should be pointed out that being serious does not work with irrational people. I can point to 3 decades of skeptics being serious and failing over a plethora of issues trying to be rational and serious. I really don’t think this issue is using females and drawing on their sex appeal. Quite the opposite, using ridicule it is showing that sexist religious beliefs have no basis in reality. As for the religious aspects and stereotyping, when will the rest of this faith come out and condemn this cleric for being ignorant and proposing a belief that will kill people?
If you sit back and don’t say anything about the leaders of your tribe saying stupid things, don’t be surprised if you get tarred with the same brush by others. There is simply no good reason for any follower of Islam to not believe in the real cause of Earthquakes. And if we sit back and say and do nothing in case it is used against us then being ignorant has won.
(I noticed that PZ responded on Ryans blog)
“If you sit back and don’t say anything about the leaders of your tribe saying stupid things…”
Sorry – so ANY gesture, ANY kind is best? This goes for both sides of these arguments? What if your life is at risk for speaking out?
I’d rather continue checking out the research that shows it’s a lot more complicated than that, thanks…
Oh – and if a certain person who keeps landing in the spam-file CONTINUES to post insults about women, they’re going to find their IP permanently blacklisted, this is not a opportunity to go around calling skeptics ‘sluts’ or whatever it is that you’re trying to do. :/
I also will not be participating. I think it’s goofy and will in way achieve that purpose. Plus, I’d look damn unprofessional at work.
Also, it’s important to note that earthquakes are so common, the odds that one will occur on that day (a small one at least) is very likely. #FAIL
“Quite the opposite, using ridicule it is showing that sexist religious beliefs have no basis in reality.”
But showing whom?
Yes – who exactly is this being aimed at? Fundamentalist Christians? Why would they change their views of Fundamentalist Muslims? How about moderate Muslims? They already know about the issues of the extremists and I linked to an article about that. I am genuinely confused, but I did link first and foremost to that article where the Boobquake-creator is quoted for a reason. That is what she says about it.
A gesture for the sake of a gesture… would you get your penis out in the same fashion? Let me know. Er, but no pics, thanks. :/
I also wonder what has led people to remove the more fundamentalist elements in the past from their communities. I know that it’s still an ongoing issue in Australia, as I linked to before.
Should we tar Christians with the same brush we do Pat Robertson when they don’t speak out against his blaming hurricanes on abortions? Why should we force anybody to denounce the crazy theories of others, under threat of considering them the same? Stereotyping a minority is not justified simply because it does not denounce a further minority within it. Responsibility for crazy beliefs is solely that of those and only those who hold them.
Sitting back and ignoring this ignorance would not let it win. It would be robbing it of an undeserved public platform.
I’d like to speak on behalf as myself as a pro-skepticism, pro-feminism and pro-won’t-get-anything-out-unless-I’d-do-it-around-grandma-because-I-care-about-focusing-on-the-bigger-issues that my response is a OH HELL NO at the notion of a ‘PenisQuake’.
Well, I think all the fuss is dying down now – there was an earthquake in Taiwan earlier today and I think Bora linked to something about the average number of earthquakes every day… honestly? The most I usually look into such a topic only revolves around the Young Earth Creationists and how they deny continental drift. So, I’ll leave it up to the Geologists on that one.
A big ‘hello’ to all the very lovely traffic that is coming here from a few people who linked to this post from various forums and blog-posts out there. Glad to have your attention, glad that you’ll read this article for what it is (rather than the odd assumption that it is ‘accusatory’? I still don’t get that…) – and hope you stick around for more of my work.
If you’d like to be informed about the history of women and skepticism, I suggest that link to further research and investigations on the topic. I’ve spent a few years on it. Enjoy.
Oh – and check out and contribute to http://www.shethought.com!
Just a question – why is everyone backtracking now that there WAS an earthquake in Taiwan and there WERE Australians taking part and now people are claiming ‘only US-time zones?’
I see this as ‘lowest-common denominator crap’. Let’s wave our tits (female, not male) about and think it’s making a difference. How is this any different to turning your avatar green when there was a Middle-East crisis? As for Stephanie Zvan’s post, give me a break – read the damned posts before she labels them as ‘not-science’ – scientists were writing those responses she derides!
Don’t get me started on how throwing 50c a shirt at JREF is going to make this a skeptic rather than atheist stunt either. This is about a comical gag that went completely out of control – and people holding it up as ‘science’ better start acknowledging that there’s plenty of earthquakes every day that can be tracked, plenty of revealing-dressed (even not-dressed) women – and to say ‘you’re already taking part because you dress Western style’ is just insulting.
I’m not taking part. Don’t say I am already, because you think it’s a default. I don’t support you – I support real activists not ‘it’s a joke’ stunts. [/soapbox and thanks for the ear even if you don't agree with everything I say.]
I liked BlogHer’s summary:
http://www.blogher.com/boobquake-movement
“Because what Blag Hag sort of missed was that modesty is a core belief of this Iranian prayer leader’s religion. And core beliefs are not dismissed because a bunch of women placed pictures of their breasts online. Because, when you boil down Boobquake to its core, it was a bunch of women placing pictures of their breasts online. And frankly, with porn doing that too, as well as every girl gone wild on Spring Break, I’m not sure how we can separate the wheat from the chaff. To hold up Boobquake as a feminist movement, but Girls Gone Wild as a misogynistic spectacle….
…Boobquake was sort of like a big, honking slice of bread on the seder plate. What Boobquake needed was Heschel’s gentle hand guiding a protest that reaches millions while transgressing none of the rules held dear by the people she aims to educate.
Strangely enough, I think the Facebook stats speak an interesting story. As I write this, 207,803 are saying they’re participating with an additional 68,028 maybe attending. But 307,525 took the time to hit “no” on the Facebook invite and reject the idea and 538,164 are like me and hit file without answering, hence they are marked as “awaiting reply.”"
I chose ‘no’. there are also some very interesting comments about the ‘instant’ nature of online activism — since you mentioned Amanda Marcotte’s book — in that post:
“Movements took place prior to the digital age but they evolved and grew, they were reviewed and reinvented and refined over time. Now the world is connected in milliseconds and the previous thinking time which allowed us to filter our thoughts and actions is compressed into a one line text message or a 30sec sound bite.
Her later statements do indicate that she has embraced her status as an instant expert and bought into her new found celebrity persona and the power it generated. I don’t necessarily think that this makes the concept of Boobquake any more serious. “
That’s a very long quote there – you from their site?
Heidi Anderson, good friend, great commentator – if you haven’t read her take, it’s here:
http://fatoneinthemiddle.com/2010/04/26/but-but-but-surely-you-support-boobquake-right/
My good friend ‘Tribal Scientist’ has a say in the comments there too, with a Science Communication perspective, which I don’t think has been raised much?
http://www.afterthree.net/2010/04/26/boobquake-a-recap-and-response/
I noticed a quote from the trackback below:
“The people who should REALLY be leading the response to the statements made by the cleric are IRANIAN and MUSLIM WOMEN, who have, you know, the LIVED EXPERIENCE of dealing with these statements every day, but their voices are silenced by us obnoxious and entitled white-educated-secular types who feel the need to make a BOOBQUAKE instead of really listening and standing in solidarity. Our form of protest also bars and mocks women who CHOOSE to dress modestly — such as women who wear the niqab – from participating in and being at the forefront of the protest, a protest which actually affects their lives far more than ours.”
I think I was a little surprised by Jessica Valenti’s comment on the Feministing Site, I guess I thought they’d support it?
“Thanks for this post – I just wanted to clarify that Feministing never “supported” Boobquake – we posted recently about it asking our readers what they thought about it, but didn’t endorse or participate in the event. Thanks!”
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