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	<title>Comments on: The Ode Less Practiced &#8211; Ericsson and Charness, 1994 / Fry, 2005</title>
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	<link>http://podblack.com/2009/03/the-ode-less-practiced-ericsson-and-charness-1994-fry-2005/</link>
	<description>Science, Superstitions and Skeptical Life</description>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://podblack.com/2009/03/the-ode-less-practiced-ericsson-and-charness-1994-fry-2005/comment-page-1/#comment-18313</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://podblack.com/?p=1241#comment-18313</guid>
		<description>@badrescher--

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Skinner was also just a little bit crazy (the rumor that he used a human-sized Skinner box with his daughter is true according to my sources) and a lot WRONG about language in particular.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Your source is more than just a little bit wrong.  Deborah Skinner Buzan  (Skinner&#039;s daughter, a successful artist, specializing in landscapes) addresses one such blatantly wrong source here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2004/mar/12/highereducation.uk  .
If you wish to read the original Ladies Home Journal article (from 1945!) introducing the AirCrib, instead of relying on dodgy sources, it is here:  http://www.uni.edu/~maclino/cl/skinner_baby_in_a_box.pdf  .

As for Verbal Behavior, it is likely that your source has read nothing more on the subject than Chomsky&#039;s review, which led cognitive psychologists on their revolution, and led behaviorists to wonder whether Chomsky had actually read the book.  Chomsky&#039;s description of Skinner&#039;s theory was factually inaccurate to the point of being unrecognizable (for one of many reviews, see Kenneth MacCorquodale&#039;s reply here: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&amp;artid=1333660 )  The Analysis of Verbal Behavior is still a very strong and useful field, especially (at present--but by no means exclusively) regarding teaching autistic children to speak.

One thing you could probably accurately blame Skinner for, though, is not adequately responding when others badly misrepresented his work.  He basically ignored Chomsky, for instance, figuring that the review was so incredibly wrong that no one would take it seriously.  Bad move; far more people have read Chomsky&#039;s review than have read Skinner&#039;s original book, and so far more people have an inaccurate view of what the analysis of verbal behavior is.  (I include Ph. D. psychologists in this; I have had many occasions to correct people who should have known better.  I can&#039;t, then, blame non-experts too terribly much.)  One nice summary (not the only one) of some of the longstanding myths about Radical Behaviorism is found in Todd &amp; Morris&#039;s &quot;Case studies in the Great Power of Steady Misrepresentation&quot;: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1482006 .

Lastly, Skinner was very much a devotee of the arts.  He and his daughter took a sculpture course together, for instance; he was a regular patron of the orchestra and theatre, and of course supported and encouraged his daughter, the artist.  I met him in his later years, and have known quite a few people who knew him well; all agree he was incredibly well-rounded, inquisitive, intelligent, warm... oddly enough, I don&#039;t think I have heard anyone who has actually known the man describe him as &quot;a little bit crazy&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@badrescher&#8211;</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Skinner was also just a little bit crazy (the rumor that he used a human-sized Skinner box with his daughter is true according to my sources) and a lot WRONG about language in particular.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Your source is more than just a little bit wrong.  Deborah Skinner Buzan  (Skinner&#8217;s daughter, a successful artist, specializing in landscapes) addresses one such blatantly wrong source here: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2004/mar/12/highereducation.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2004/mar/12/highereducation.uk</a>  .<br />
If you wish to read the original Ladies Home Journal article (from 1945!) introducing the AirCrib, instead of relying on dodgy sources, it is here:  <a href="http://www.uni.edu/~maclino/cl/skinner_baby_in_a_box.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.uni.edu/~maclino/cl/skinner_baby_in_a_box.pdf</a>  .</p>
<p>As for Verbal Behavior, it is likely that your source has read nothing more on the subject than Chomsky&#8217;s review, which led cognitive psychologists on their revolution, and led behaviorists to wonder whether Chomsky had actually read the book.  Chomsky&#8217;s description of Skinner&#8217;s theory was factually inaccurate to the point of being unrecognizable (for one of many reviews, see Kenneth MacCorquodale&#8217;s reply here: <a href="http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&#038;artid=1333660" rel="nofollow">http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&#038;artid=1333660</a> )  The Analysis of Verbal Behavior is still a very strong and useful field, especially (at present&#8211;but by no means exclusively) regarding teaching autistic children to speak.</p>
<p>One thing you could probably accurately blame Skinner for, though, is not adequately responding when others badly misrepresented his work.  He basically ignored Chomsky, for instance, figuring that the review was so incredibly wrong that no one would take it seriously.  Bad move; far more people have read Chomsky&#8217;s review than have read Skinner&#8217;s original book, and so far more people have an inaccurate view of what the analysis of verbal behavior is.  (I include Ph. D. psychologists in this; I have had many occasions to correct people who should have known better.  I can&#8217;t, then, blame non-experts too terribly much.)  One nice summary (not the only one) of some of the longstanding myths about Radical Behaviorism is found in Todd &amp; Morris&#8217;s &#8220;Case studies in the Great Power of Steady Misrepresentation&#8221;: <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1482006" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1482006</a> .</p>
<p>Lastly, Skinner was very much a devotee of the arts.  He and his daughter took a sculpture course together, for instance; he was a regular patron of the orchestra and theatre, and of course supported and encouraged his daughter, the artist.  I met him in his later years, and have known quite a few people who knew him well; all agree he was incredibly well-rounded, inquisitive, intelligent, warm&#8230; oddly enough, I don&#8217;t think I have heard anyone who has actually known the man describe him as &#8220;a little bit crazy&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: AndyD</title>
		<link>http://podblack.com/2009/03/the-ode-less-practiced-ericsson-and-charness-1994-fry-2005/comment-page-1/#comment-18298</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://podblack.com/?p=1241#comment-18298</guid>
		<description>I have often credited &quot;talent&quot; as resulting from &quot;interest&quot; and hard work as opposed to some naturally occurring &quot;gift&quot;.

As an artist (painter &amp; graphic) who has enjoyed some level of commercial success, I know that much of what I do I have learned through dedication more than inspiration. The question, for me anyway, is whether the &quot;interest&quot; that drove me to pursue art, as opposed to kicking a footy, is hard-wired or perhaps sociological or something else. 

There are times, though, when words like &quot;talent&quot; and &quot;gift&quot; come across almost as insults - as if the &quot;gifted&quot; person doesn&#039;t even need to try in order to be good at what they&#039;re doing.

A part of me feels I could do poetry (nonsense verse at least) but I&#039;m disinclined to try it seriously, so it remains difficult. Then I read DC&#039;s amazing stuff and figure I just might not stand a snowball&#039;s chance of ever being good enough at it to satisfy myself. I&#039;m just not that talented ;)

Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have often credited &#8220;talent&#8221; as resulting from &#8220;interest&#8221; and hard work as opposed to some naturally occurring &#8220;gift&#8221;.</p>
<p>As an artist (painter &amp; graphic) who has enjoyed some level of commercial success, I know that much of what I do I have learned through dedication more than inspiration. The question, for me anyway, is whether the &#8220;interest&#8221; that drove me to pursue art, as opposed to kicking a footy, is hard-wired or perhaps sociological or something else. </p>
<p>There are times, though, when words like &#8220;talent&#8221; and &#8220;gift&#8221; come across almost as insults &#8211; as if the &#8220;gifted&#8221; person doesn&#8217;t even need to try in order to be good at what they&#8217;re doing.</p>
<p>A part of me feels I could do poetry (nonsense verse at least) but I&#8217;m disinclined to try it seriously, so it remains difficult. Then I read DC&#8217;s amazing stuff and figure I just might not stand a snowball&#8217;s chance of ever being good enough at it to satisfy myself. I&#8217;m just not that talented <img src='http://podblack.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: badrescher</title>
		<link>http://podblack.com/2009/03/the-ode-less-practiced-ericsson-and-charness-1994-fry-2005/comment-page-1/#comment-18292</link>
		<dc:creator>badrescher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 05:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://podblack.com/?p=1241#comment-18292</guid>
		<description>&quot;B. F. Skinner compares the process of creating a poem with the process of ‘creating’ a baby - or more accurately, not so much ‘creation’ as as locus - interaction between two genetic histories (in the case of the parents) or between a genetic and an environmental history (in the case of the poet).&quot;

Skinner was also just a little bit crazy (the rumor that he used a human-sized Skinner box with his daughter is true according to my sources) and a lot WRONG about language in particular. 

I think that, like any other fine art, there are components of both art and skill. The skill part can be learned/practiced whereas the art part may be &quot;natural&quot; for some, but is difficult to acquire.

My husband is a Designer/Art Director and quite talented in my opinion &amp; the opinions of almost everyone else who has seen his work. He often describes his work as a skill that anyone can learn, but I don&#039;t believe that&#039;s &lt;i&gt;entirely&lt;/i&gt; true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;B. F. Skinner compares the process of creating a poem with the process of ‘creating’ a baby &#8211; or more accurately, not so much ‘creation’ as as locus &#8211; interaction between two genetic histories (in the case of the parents) or between a genetic and an environmental history (in the case of the poet).&#8221;</p>
<p>Skinner was also just a little bit crazy (the rumor that he used a human-sized Skinner box with his daughter is true according to my sources) and a lot WRONG about language in particular. </p>
<p>I think that, like any other fine art, there are components of both art and skill. The skill part can be learned/practiced whereas the art part may be &#8220;natural&#8221; for some, but is difficult to acquire.</p>
<p>My husband is a Designer/Art Director and quite talented in my opinion &amp; the opinions of almost everyone else who has seen his work. He often describes his work as a skill that anyone can learn, but I don&#8217;t believe that&#8217;s <i>entirely</i> true.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: podblack</title>
		<link>http://podblack.com/2009/03/the-ode-less-practiced-ericsson-and-charness-1994-fry-2005/comment-page-1/#comment-18284</link>
		<dc:creator>podblack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://podblack.com/?p=1241#comment-18284</guid>
		<description>When things are calmed down (for both of us!) maybe try a dialogue again? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When things are calmed down (for both of us!) maybe try a dialogue again? <img src='http://podblack.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Cuttlefish</title>
		<link>http://podblack.com/2009/03/the-ode-less-practiced-ericsson-and-charness-1994-fry-2005/comment-page-1/#comment-18282</link>
		<dc:creator>Cuttlefish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://podblack.com/?p=1241#comment-18282</guid>
		<description>Brava!!!

(Ok, I want to write more, but to do justice to a post like this will take some doing.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brava!!!</p>
<p>(Ok, I want to write more, but to do justice to a post like this will take some doing.)</p>
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